photo by Peter Ellenby

John Doe, more than most, exudes integrity. In his humble beginnings as the front man for Los Angeles’ most important punk rock group, X, Doe helped define a musical and cultural movement in revolt against the shallow, pretentious opulence of arena rock and the hedonistic lifestyle it helped to perpetuate. Both with X and as a solo performer, Doe has crafted honest, poignant songs that capture both the moment in time and the essential humanity imbedded in those moments. His latest solo release, Dim Stars, Bright Sky, offers a softer, more adult version of the alt.country that Doe originally helped to birth. The acoustic arrangements are a wonderful accompaniment to Doe’s mature tales of relationships of all kinds, and the harmony cameos by his friends—Aimee Mann, Jane Wiedlin, Juliana Hatfield, Rhett Miller and Jakob Dylan—add a very subtle touch of color to Doe’s heartfelt vocals. We caught up with Doe on the road, taking a break from promoting Dim Stars, Bright Sky to once again play several shows with X. Even though his music may have mellowed over the years, Doe and his criticisms of the music industry remain true to their punk rock roots: straightforward, honest, pointed, his own. He has stayed true to his own essence, to the essence of the original punk movement, and that integrity is what makes Doe an indispensable part of the music scene.

POP CULTURE PRESS: So how does it feel to be back on the road with X?
JOHN DOE: It’s always fun to play. It’s all good friends, people have a gas, so everybody’s happy. At a certain point you just have to give up and just have a good time. There’s only a certain amount of angst that anyone can muster.

PCP: I’ve noticed that X has gotten back together a few times for festival shows, such as Hootenanny a few years ago, and Inland Invasion last year. What’s it like to play those shows?
JD: You know, a lot of it was like a big rock show. That I’m not real crazy about. But the other punk rock part was good. The big rock show’s the reason why punk rock started, because that’s all there was. Big stadium rock shows. And regardless of what kinds of bands you have, if you put them in that sort of arena, it becomes that thing which I don’t like. Never have. Maybe when I was 13 or 14 and I saw the Rolling Stones in a hockey arena in Baltimore, you know, I didn’t care, but now I do.

PCP: What are the crowds like at the X shows?
JD: They’re actually kind of similar to the way that they have been for our entire career, which is mixed. I would say the average age is probably mid-20s, something like that. There’s a lot of people that have never seen X. There’s some people that saw X with Tony Gilkyson but never saw it with Billy Zoom. There’s some people that saw it years ago and want to see it again. If we try too hard, or if it sucks, or, if nobody came or if any of the elements were sort of, like, not really happening, then you’d start questioning if it was worth doing.

PCP: What separates X from bands like REO Speedwagon, who continue to tour 15 or 20 years past their creative peak? What keeps X from being a nostalgia band?
JD: Because that’s not all we do. We have all kinds of other creative projects, and we do this more for the people than for ourselves. I personally—and I sort of speak for the band—I personally do this because the audience requests it. And plus, REO Speedwagon never was good. I mean, I’m sure there are people who love REO Speedwagon, but they were pretentious and bloated and terrible. So, 20 years down the line, they’re even more pretentious and terrible and bloated. But, eventually, we’ll all be saying that this is enough. I’m close to that, to be honest. It’s cool—I love playing with X, but there’s a time at which we’ll have to say, “Okay, we played, we did our thing, everybody saw it who needed to.” And hopefully, well, I’m sure it’ll be before we start sucking.

PCP: Throughout your career, a lot of your songs have been about relationships.
JD: That’s kind of what I do.

PCP: Why is that?
JD: I guess it’s just habit at this point. It’s the one thing that has endless possibilities, endless variation. I’m gonna have to leave it alone for a few songs. I think I’ve run my course at this point. I think I write songs about relationships because it’s the most moving experience that people have. It motivates you to write something about it so you can understand it better. I think it certainly is something we all go through.

PCP: In your press release for Dim Stars, Bright Sky, you mention being friends with John Waters. You’re an actor now, so how come you haven’t made it into any of his movies?
JD: He keeps threatening, or promising, depending on your view. Every time I confront him with that—and I don’t see him very often, he’s doing all these speaking engagements now, in addition to making movies—he always says, “Well, you were just too young or too old for all the parts.” And I know that that’s sort of like the most traditional Hollywood dodge, but whatever. I mean, I’d love to, but you can’t make somebody. He has a really hard time getting people to let him make movies, which is totally fucking ridiculous but it’s true.

PCP: Why do you think that is?
JD: People still see him as what he was, and, I don’t know, and because it’s really difficult to make any kind of art that is not sort of — and this is not a sour grapes or being bitter in any way — but I just find it sort of astounding that most of the entertainment industry is geared toward the taste of 12-year-olds. And I think, “Well, wait a minute, aren’t there adults that are running the fucking companies? Why don’t they do part of their deal for that market and then do things for grown-ups, too?” Big things, not just sort of art things. I think our major problem in entertainment is that there is just too much stuff out there, and we can’t take any time to see it. But with the Internet and with all the different outlets people have to put out records and movies, it just makes it all the more difficult to know what’s going on and to really experience things. Think about a big rock critic. How many records does he or she get a week? They probably have 15 fucking records on their desk every week. Or more, you know?

PCP: What are you listening to these days? Anything you particularly like?
JD: All my friends, all my friends’ records. I like Aimee Mann’s new record, I like melodic stuff. There’s a guy in San Diego named Gregory Page, who I hope to write songs with soon. And Jill Sobule, I love her stuff. I like Rhett Miller’s record. Another guy in San Diego named Tom Cousteau, who’s actually opening for Juliana Hatfield.

PCP: Anything you particularly dislike?
JD: I really don’t like the new Beck record. Really don’t like that. He’s incredibly talented to be able to lay that out, but I think it’s totally fake. Plus it sounds just like Nick Drake—hello? I don’t understand critics and people, you know? Ryan Adams puts out that Heartbreaker record and it sounds, you know: this song sounds like Bob Dylan, that song sounds like Neil Young, and it’s all like this borrowed shit and people and critics are just all over it, they’re just pissing in their pants. And it’s like, “Wait a minute, those guys like Bob Dylan and the Band, they were your heroes, fucking 20 years ago, or 30 years ago. Why aren’t you busting this guy for just appropriating their sound?” Yeah, he’s an all right songwriter, he’s a pretty good songwriter, but he stole the fucking sound. What’s the deal? I think if you’re new, you should be doing something a little newer to it, add a little something to it. But anyway, I’m not here to bag on Ryan Adams.

PCP: In a way, you’re kind of the godfather of alt.country. How do you feel about the genre you helped to create?
JD: I think it’s a tribute to the hybrid of music that it is, that it had sort of a heyday in the beginning, and then everybody didn’t just jump ship and go off and do something else that was new. Now there are still bands that could be put in that genre, and it seems to be coming back in a more substantial way, not just being a flavor of the month. There’s just a lot of stuff going on that could be considered alt.country. And some people accept it and other people reject it, like Neko Case. I just did several dates with her and if she hears anybody else say “alt.country” to her she’s gonna kick ‘em in the balls. Well, she might do that, just on principle anyway, you know what I mean? Neko is great, she’s got a great record out. Had a good time touring together. But, you know, I think there’s some good and some that suck. And that’s the way it always is, so there’s good and there’s bad and hopefully we can have more good than bad.

PCP: Speaking of which, how do you feel about the last Wilco record?
JD: I thought it was too self-indulgent for me. I enjoyed Being There, I’m a fan of Wilco, I’m a fan of Jeff Tweedy, but … the reason there was X, is because five minute songs usually don’t work. If you don’t have a strong chorus, unless there’s something else that’s really compelling about it, I’m not really interested. When you go into dissonance, you better have a point to your dissonance, rather than just doing it to be fucking weird, you know? Like, I want to know where the downbeat is. I want to know what key this fucking song is in. It’s pop art, not fine art. Popular art. It’s not for museums, you’re putting out a fucking record.

PCP: I’ve always felt that your songs had a particular western feel to them. That is to say that they capture my imagination of what the western half of the country is like: a certain sparseness, a particular kind of Americana.
JD: You know that’s exactly one of the reasons I made the record I did this time: to give people what they expect of me. It’s all about arrangement, and recording, somewhat about songs, and what people bring to the listening experience. I’m lucky enough—or unlucky enough, however you look at it—to have enough information out there, enough presence, that people are bringing something to the listening. And I would talk to somebody who hadn’t heard the last three or four solo records, and they’d say “Oh, what’s your new record sound like? Is it acoustic?” And I’d say “well … no … not really.… They’re like rock records.” Then they’d say, “Oh, it is kinda like alt.country?” and I’d say “No, not really. I’m using loops, distressed vocals and as much interesting stuff that I think fits,” and they think I’m pretentious. I just thought, “You know what, I am labeled, and I am in the alt.country world whether I want to be or not.” So, why not just take the little elements that either make it part of that or not, and leave it alone? I like that style of music, and I was sort of fighting against it for a long time. And, I’ve given in to what the satisfying listening experience could be.

For more information, visit http://www.thejohndoe.com or http://www.xtheband.com

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